Posts by Lion Cask

9

The Trials of Ted Haggard. You will only see it here. A MUST SEE FOR BELIEVERS AND NON BELIEVERS!!!

by whereami in

jw
friends

never really liked this guy.

but after watching this i think i actually feel sorry for him.

i thought the jw's were bad.

Lion Cask

You reap what you sow, and it is only you who chooses the field.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VhcScBdnEhY&NR=1

T minus 8,598 days and counting, but no more posts allowed for me today.

106

If Genesis isn't taken literally, who's sin did Jesus die for?

by unshackled in

this is an interesting blog post by the author cj werleman - write of the books god hates you, hate him back and jesus lied - he was only human.

he writes with a good dose of humor which usually helps get his point across.. the blog post dissects the latest gallup poll results regarding 40% of americans believe in biblical creationism.

but the point i found interesting in it was that if you don't believe the genesis account is literal....then jesus atoned for the sin of a fictitious character, adam.. here is a quote from the blog...but please give the whole thing a read, makes more sense that way:.

Lion Cask

Here's an alternative theory (I'm only allowed one more post after this one for today, so can't get into a debate about it). Let's see if you can consider it, even just a little bit.

The Bible is a collection of writings made by men who lived at a time when the sun orbited around a flat earth and natural phenomena were regarded as portents. The collection was larger at one time, surviving as copies of copies of copies, and it was rendered down by the Roman Catholic Church many centuries after writing to represent the basic work it is today, from which various translations and interpretations have been taken and untold volumes of complimentary works have been produced. The Bible contains coda with which one may structure a principled life and it contains anomalies, contradictions and mysteries which have precipitated a spectrum of belief systems, not all of which (probably none of which) can be correct.

Given that Jesus of Nazareth actually existed and was executed for purposes that can only be gleaned from the Bible (since there is no other reference) then it is only through an interpretation of the Bible one can understand his sacrifice. To repeat, there is no other reference, so you either believe the Bible is factual or you don't.

If the Bible cannot be believed then you need to find another rationale for the existence and sacrifice of Jesus of Nazareth or you need to accept that he either was not what he is held to be in the hearts and minds of millions or he never existed at all.

12

Can't fault Witnesses for their level of dedication.

by Vanderhoven7 in

can't doubt the dedication of most witnesses.. .

attending 5 meetings a week; doing 10 hours of fieldservice (door-to-door) each month; working hard for the reward of eternal life on paradise earth; willingness to shun their best friends and family members if these individuals are disfellowshipped from the organization; denying their young children blood transfusions even if it might save their lives; deciding not do any independant thinking apart from their religion; willingness to change their beliefs every time their anointed leaders change their minds on doctrinal matters....the list goes on and on.. .

yes, it's amazing what people without the indwelling holy spirit will dedicate themselves to do.. .

Lion Cask

Sadly, there is much you can fault. Dedication to a cause that is worthy - emancipation from slavery, for example - is something you can't fault, but dedication to something that does harm - sacrificing human lives to an unseen, unknowable deity, for example - is something in which you can't help but find fault. I expect your statement is sarcastic.

There are some non-Western societies that admire Adolf Hitler. Taiwan is a good example, but there are others. They admire him not because of the atrocities he committed but because he was dedicated and orderly and achieved great things. Personally, I find fault in Adolf Hitler and in the WTS, but that's just me.

106

If Genesis isn't taken literally, who's sin did Jesus die for?

by unshackled in

this is an interesting blog post by the author cj werleman - write of the books god hates you, hate him back and jesus lied - he was only human.

he writes with a good dose of humor which usually helps get his point across.. the blog post dissects the latest gallup poll results regarding 40% of americans believe in biblical creationism.

but the point i found interesting in it was that if you don't believe the genesis account is literal....then jesus atoned for the sin of a fictitious character, adam.. here is a quote from the blog...but please give the whole thing a read, makes more sense that way:.

Lion Cask

If a visitor from another planet could observe the personalities in this forum he could be nothing but bemused.

Observation: You all think you're right, but you all can't be right. It's all but impossible. Lets just say the statistical probability is virtually zero. That is something you all can agree with (I think). However, you all can be wrong. This has a probability approaching 1.0.

The most logical conclusion one might make is all of your brains (our brains) are flawed and everything you (we) believe to be true is the ephemeral product of thousands upon thousands of filtering iterations involving what we have heard, what we have been taught, what we have seen, what we have read and what we have imagined in our own minds. The thing is, those filtering processes are ongoing simply because the mind cannot help itself but to seek to legitimise what it understands. A week, a month, a year from now you will think differently - in all probability how you will think will be fundamentally the same as you do now, but it is absolutely certain (in the absence of going into a coma for the duration) that what you hold to be true today will not be exactly the same as what you will hold to be true in the future. If your mind is closed to alternative perspectives, in particular contrarian perspectives, the direction of your thinking will not change but you will become progressively more convinced that you are right and everyone else is wrong, even if only a little bit. The downside of closing your mind is retardation of intellectual growth. I hope I am not being ungracious by observing that there's some evidence of that in here.

Certainty is the mother of fools. (Patrick Jane)

19

Taking legal action against the JWs for DFing??? Need serious advice

by 2pink in

jw
friends

i posted a thread a bit earlier about our impending judicial committee/dfing for celebrating "false religious holidays".

they have seen decor on the outside of our house, so i guess that is their "evidence" that we engage in false religion now!

my husband and i have talked and are serious about taking legal action against the jws if they try to df us against our will.

Lion Cask

You should get some legal advice before you make any moves, even simply implying or threatening your intention to sue. Any elder worth his salt will know that the WTS has taken the right to disfellowship to the Supreme Court (I am assuming you are in the US) and has won. Following is from the official Watchtower website:

http://www.watchtower.org/e/19880415/article_01.htm

Since you threw this out into a public forum I expect you're seeking feedback. If I was to be just a little cynical I might observe that you may want just a little too much. Putting up Christmas decorations outside your house is a strong statement your congregation could not ignore. You seem to be saying you want to disassociate but you really don't. You have started the fire burning and are now considering feeding the flames but if you escalate the situation it may just consume you. If you want to maintain relationships with some people in the Kingdom Hall you will need to convince them to fade with you (or disassociate, since the fading option may now be lost to you) or you will need to put the fire out by taking down your decorations and eating a little crow. From what I understand you can't have it both ways.

My real advice, now that you have made your very public statement, is to say goodbye to the WTS and make a fresh start. You may have no other choice anyway.

12

Keep on asking, seeking, knocking. Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you.

by sinis in

jw
friends

yep, thats about as much of the bible as i care to believe in, or quote, except "you will know the truth and the truth will set you free".

the only two verses i care for.

the bible is bs, religion is bs, and the jw's are the ultimate form of bs.

Lion Cask

They actually were trying to convince her to divorce me as I was a spiritual detriment!!!!

Thank you for your generous response, sinis. It was only after a member of my wife's family, a very fine young man by most standards, was DF'ed that I began to see the danger of the WTS trying to convince my wife to leave me. If it could happen to him, it could happen to me. It frankly shook me out of my complacency. The young man in question was a born in, baptised as an adolescent, as was his bride. He was troubled by inconsistencies in WTS teachings and doctrines and convinced his wife to fade with him. The pressure to bring them back in was considerable and they agreed to give it a try. It was a terrible mistake. After a period of time he once again decided it wasn't for him, but his wife stayed behind this time and refused to join him. He handled neither the rejection nor the freedom well. He started to smoke tobacco (quit after a few months), had an affair (also quit after a few months), lost his wife, was DF'ed and now his family will have nothing to do with him. Another life wrecked by the WTS.

33

What % of current JWs sincerely believe Armageddon will come within the next 30 years?

by jj123jj123 in

just to give you a little background about myself, i was a born-in, i'm in my late 20's now, i faded away a few years ago after researching the history of the wtbs on the internet.

my fade was aided by moving away with my job(i definately feel lucky about that).

eventually, i had discussions with a couple of my closer jw friends about why i no longer believed in the wtbs.

Lion Cask

Example: Suppose a wife, totally in love with her husband, had two options: 1) life the rest of her life happily married and blissfully ignorant of his transgression or 2) know the truth and never get married again. If you ASKED her if she would want to know the truth she'd say yes. And if she found out the truth, she'd never say "i wish i never knew and he just kept on cheating on me behind my back". But she would have been happier if she had not known. Its an interesting situation reallyh.

Your example, simon17, is certainly appropriate within the context of the OP. It's rather sad, actually, because delusion is nothing like truth and it is only truth that will set you free. I once asked my wife the question "If the WTS is not what it represents itself to be, would you want to know?" and she was unable to answer. She just kind of shrugged, said nothing and averted her gaze. I took that to mean "no". So, maybe the wife in your example, if she was to really think about it, would not want to know the truth if proffered evidence that her cherished and trusted husband was in reality a philanderer. Would she be better off knowing the truth? If the cost is whatever love she gets from her cheating husband is forever lost and not replaced by love from another, perhaps not. But what a sad situation that would be, to be enslaved for life to a lie. It would be better, in my estimation, to be freed by truth and then seek out someone who will be true to you, even if in the end the search is fruitless.

12

Keep on asking, seeking, knocking. Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you.

by sinis in

jw
friends

yep, thats about as much of the bible as i care to believe in, or quote, except "you will know the truth and the truth will set you free".

the only two verses i care for.

the bible is bs, religion is bs, and the jw's are the ultimate form of bs.

Lion Cask

Congratulations. How did you do it? (Get your family out, I mean).

41

CO admits from platform that "we were embarassed by 1975."

by watson in

said with a smirk/smile/grin.

this one is the most glib i've seen.. actually, several times "75" came up.

maybe they feel the more they bring it up and make light of it, the more of a non-issue it will become..

Lion Cask

1975 was the reason I almost became a Jehovah's Witness and the reason I didn't. I started studying in 1974 and watched some other bible students take the plunge but didn't go for it myself because it just didn't feel right. By the fall of 1976, despite assurances that it was "gonna be any day now, just be patient!" I had had enough and pulled the plug. Interesting that those still in brush it all off as inconsequential. As I remember it, it was a very big deal. The Kingdom Hall was always electric with anticipation.

33

What % of current JWs sincerely believe Armageddon will come within the next 30 years?

by jj123jj123 in

just to give you a little background about myself, i was a born-in, i'm in my late 20's now, i faded away a few years ago after researching the history of the wtbs on the internet.

my fade was aided by moving away with my job(i definately feel lucky about that).

eventually, i had discussions with a couple of my closer jw friends about why i no longer believed in the wtbs.

Lion Cask

To misquote Gary Larson, Armageddon, Smarmageddon. Here's my take.

The problem with people who are caught up in the whole eternity shtick, in particular Jehovah's Witnesses, is their abundance mentality. It screws them up and screws up their relationships with others, in particular those in their families who do not share their beliefs. To them, today is not all that important because there are going to be untold billions and trillions of days in the future, and they're all going to be sunny!.

I just want to grasp them by the shoulders and say "WAKE UP!". The days of our lives are finite and some of them are going to be rainy. When we die, we die, whether it is because we don't believe in Jesus or because we do believe in Jesus but don't measure up or because we just see life as finite.

Those of us who do not believe in Armageddon, imminent or otherwise, have scarcity mentalities. Every day is absolutely precious. Every day you daydream about lambs lying down with lions while you feed them grass, every day you shun your child, your brother, your parent or your friend, every day you stick your head in the sand about how heavy life really is, is a day you have lost forever.

If you're in your twenties, start a countdown. T minus 20,000 days and counting, tomorrow will be T-19,999. If you're in your fiftees start at 10,000 days, realising there are already almost twice that many behind you. You may live longer, you may not, but you have only so many days left ahead of you. Time is flowing through your fingers like sand. Use it.